Posts by Lee Marsh

After I left the JWs I went to college and then university. In both I studied counseling so that when I graduated I could help other survivors of childhood sexual abuse. This was a dream that I had as a child and it continued until I connected to the JWs where I was told that it would be a waste of time because we would not need counselors in the "new system". Everyone would be perfect. (yeah right. Still waiting for that one - well not really) So I gave up my dream, got baptized, married had kids, had a breakdown, got divorced and DFed and finally went back to school to do what I wanted.

I counseled sexual abuse survivors, both men and women, exclusively for 13 years in Montreal.

Then the internet happened!!!

I started a support group for survivors on the old "Sympatico" website and got to know a few people around the world, started searching for exJW websites and found JWD!!! and posted here as "Lady Lee".

Moved to Winnipeg , got married and started to work with the homeless many of whom had been abused as children. I switched jobs to work with abused women many of whom were sexually abused as children.

And then I got sick. I had to quit working. Did a lot more work in here whenever I could. Made friends. Made enemies. Kept my sanity somehow. Did a couple of interesting projects like the cookbooks compiled from recipes by many of the posters here. All proceeds went to pay for this website. And I put together the "Best of Series". Hope some people still find that useful.

And then I was offered a chance to help on a new project that had a rather rocky start but has matured over the years. AAWA. Yes it still exists. I am the president of this not-for-profit company. We have some new projects we are working on and act as an umbrella organization for businesses or organizations that need a little help.

AJWRB (Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood) is now affiliated with us. The JW blood policy is flawed and has resulted in the death of thousands of men women and children. Lee Elder continues his work at exposing and clarifying the blood policy for JWs and for the legal and medical communities. It is a masterpiece. It is an honor to assist him in any way we can.
Shunning is a Crime is a new initiative that we are proud to be a part of. SAIC is working on making legal precedents to ban mandated shunning. Mandated shunning has taken so many lives because some religions or organizations enforce shunning policies that isolate some of their more vulnerable members, ostracizing them at a time when they need help the most.
AAWA itself continues to inform on various damaging policies of the WTS/JWs: blood, shunning. lack of post-secondary education, the abuse of children and the abuse of women. I did this interview recently for Unveiling Watch Tower Abuses.

I also started a small coaching service for people who have left any kind of cult .Stronger After provides 5 free coaching sessions that can help people coming out of cults What an eye-opener that has been. JWs are not as unique as they think they are. All cults do the same things to their members. Stronger After helps people identify their needs so that when they do find a therapist they know what to ask for. It gives them some tools and a language to help them move forward.

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Covid took a bite out of the world. While I didn't get covid I did catch the other big C - Cancer. So during the covid epidemic I battled cancer - 3 times. Colon (surgery and chemo) then metastasized to right upper lung (surgery no chemo because of my sever reaction) and then the lower left lung (radiation but no chemo). Cancer free now!!!

During my self imposed isolation I helped a friend with a civil legal case and studied civil law and helped him win what some lawyers thought was an unwinnable case. Now I have civil law running around in my head. Never wanted to be a lawyer but was actually given the title of Legal Agent by the judge in the case so that I could do what my friend needed done legally, like submitting papers to the court and speaking in court for him. Still don't want to be a lawyer though.

As a JW I had 2 children. They are long grown and one has children so I am a grandmother. And her oldest has 2 children and another on the way so soon (July) I will have 3 great-grandchildren. My mother is still alive so we have 5 generations of women alive right now. My mother has Alzheimer's and the last time I did talk to her she didn't know who I was. She thought I had died. She is 89 yrs. old. We have very sporadic contact.

Now I am doing tax papers (just mine) No desire to be an accountant either.

I have a love/hate relationship with tiny homes. They are adorable but dang there is no room for anything. No place to do anything. I would never survive in one. I have developed a green thumb since the cancer. I am growing some of the strangest plants that I never knew existed. Air plants! Who knew? And something called a zigzag plant. I have a large garden every summer. Normally I kill all plants but now, since cancer, I feel like the plant rescuer.

I have been a lot busier than I thought it seems. And oddly thinking about going back to school. Still willing to help others who need it.

And I am back here. it has changed a lot. Not as fast a board as it used to be but that is a good thing. Many new faces and and many old ones (older ones).

Some days I want to hang it all up and really retire. But then I wonder what I would do. So here I am.

Thank you Simon for keeping this alive.

11

are men more compliant than women

by enoughisenough in

i watched a video once of men being trained ...it was a study.

they had the men doing the most rediculous things-can't remember quite what now.

so between that video, the letter to elders to keep their mouths shut about the koolaid, and to go along with the csa protocol, and what i will call insurance fraud by the jw, and who knows what other things the men in positions in the org go along with-these things prompt the question.

Lee Marsh

Sorry that happened to you but good for your mother.

One of the issues regarding why people don't want to believe... well a few actually

No one wants to believe that someone they trust has abused a child. (What does it say about me that I trusted this person?)
Maybe the child really did misunderstand or was confused about what happened or if they are angry maybe they are just lying.
What if I believe it? What am I supposed to do. Go to the elders? They won't believe this child. So this goes nowhere. Go to the police - plenty of reasons not to do that. Easier to pretend you didn't hear it and do nothing.

11

are men more compliant than women

by enoughisenough in

i watched a video once of men being trained ...it was a study.

they had the men doing the most rediculous things-can't remember quite what now.

so between that video, the letter to elders to keep their mouths shut about the koolaid, and to go along with the csa protocol, and what i will call insurance fraud by the jw, and who knows what other things the men in positions in the org go along with-these things prompt the question.

Lee Marsh

Which makes me wonder why a self supporting, thinking man would be so willing to comply with things
that are clearly wrong.

One theory (not proven) is that the men in most cults derive their status by the rules of the group.

Outside the group very few have attained any prominence. The only place they can or have done that is within the group.

Within the WTS/JWs men get status by obeying the rules set out for them. To maintain that status you follow. There is no room for changing the rules. Demotion often means you are considered as defective regardless of the reasons for it.

He who is faithful in small things.....

All JWs are subject to this kind of thinking and behavior not just the men. It might just be more obvious with the men.

I was thinking the last couple of weeks how we would embellish the truth all the time. But I was remembering how at conventions we were basically told to lie on the platform. When we rehearsed our parts if it didn't sound fantastic enough we were "encouraged" to say it this way or add something that made it all sound better. In reality it was a lot of small lies and I hated it. It was what happened... sort of but not really if you know what I mean.

I also spent years pretending that I had a happy Witness marriage. People would say, "Oh I want a marriage just like yours when I do get married" I felt ill. They had no idea what life was like when no one was around to see what happened. It was a life of lies and pretend. My elder husband paid no attention to me except to demand sex. He ignored the children unless it was to lecture, yell, hit, punch or even kick them. Most of the time he was off in the study or out on service or doing shepherding calls.

All of it, by the men and women is to promote a book publishing company that isn't even publishing real books, just a lot of lies that keep changing. They demand total obedience even when they are wrong.

You don't think. You just conform.

16

How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

by Lee Marsh in

i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

and it got worse after i left.

one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

Lee Marsh

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

NotFormer15 hours agoLee: How many people have to die?
Hypothetical: every government in the world passes a law that says "Mandatory shunning is a crime" tomorrow. Do you really think a single life will be saved? The Dubs will still shun, the Amish will still shun, the Brethren will still shun. They'll just be cleverer about it. And people will keep dying.

Even if it saves one life it would be worth it.

Or prevents one person from joining.

Or helps one person out.

Or stops one person from going back in

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

DrearyWeather

There is an untold number of disfellowshipped ones who have returned to JW's and have been the vocal promoters of this policy, given interviews in assemblies and conventions.

Are you not aware that every word on the program is scripted? Even when I was in they doctored every word to make it sound like it was coming from me when really it was what they wanted people hear. That was in the early 80s and I know they have gotten even stricter since then.

And really, what is a person supposed to say. "oh I missed my family so much because of the shunning I had to come back so they would talk to me again."

No they say they were sorry and missed serving Jehovah. They found out how bad and wicked the world was and realized there is only safety in Jehovah's Organization. They say what they are told to say and forced to leave out what no one should really hear.

I was so upset the first time they forced me to say things on the platform that weren't exactly true in my words. Nope not good enough. it had to be in their words. And it never changed.

16

How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

by Lee Marsh in

i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

and it got worse after i left.

one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

Lee Marsh

Not quite sure what you are trying to say Beth Sarim

16

How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

by Lee Marsh in

i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

and it got worse after i left.

one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

Lee Marsh

I know I was suicidal before I was disfellowshipped. And it got worse after I left. One night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

My sister tried many times before finally succeeding in 2005.

At a Meetup group I attended all 9 people in attendance said they had thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped or left and experienced the shunning.

The impact on a person's life it massive. You immediately lose every person, your way of life, even your God.

Some people do it and the Witness family covers up the really reason for the death. Or they say it was because the person felt so guilty that they took their own life. Witnesses would never admit that it had anything to do with their own family shunning them.

If you have been on this board for a while then you probably know there has been one or more people here who did take their own life. It was heart-breaking for many here who knew them.

So did you think about it?

Was it related to being disfellowshipped and then shunned?

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

What we do know is there there is a very high incidence of people who commit suicide after being disfellowshipped.

At a Meetup group I am in, a few years ago we had about 9 people in the group. Someone asked how many of us seriously thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped. Every single person put their hand up. Every one!

A few of them tried. They were glad they were still alive. We were glad they were still alive.

But we have all read the stories of people who do commit suicide or the family covers up that it was a suicide. They will say it was because the person felt so guilty for what they did. But they would never admit that it was the harshness of the shunning policy.

Everyone in that group felt like they lost everything. Every person they knew. Their entire way of life. Their entire belief system. Their God. In one moment, everything gone.

I know I felt it. Everyone in that group felt it. My sister felt it and tried many times before she finally succeeded.

Over the last 24 years of listening to ex-JWs countless people felt the same way.

The numbers may have been higher before the internet became a safe place to fall.

But the reality is that when you are immediately treated like the walking dead, it isn't a long step to thinking you might as well be dead.

That is what the shunning policy does to people. How many of us needed therapy to deal with this traumatic hole in our lives?

How many people have to die?